Cyclo-Cross builds/kit/links

[Steve Hanks]

Omfg...

The N+1 is strong with that, despite my conviction to the contrary, cheers Will...

[WillBeresford]

Stan, don't. I'm trying to stop myself buying this. My Felt is fine....

[RaelWinters]

May be one to recommend to Rael...

I'm not sure I'm really feeling the love for this bike. At least not to the same extent that you guys are. Someone needs to persuade me. I get that Di2 for £1k is pretty damned amazing, but do you actually want Di2 on a cross bike? Surely that'll just make it a lot more expensive when it breaks, which presumably it will, with reasonable regularity? Plus it's 10 speed, which is a bit of a pain from a compatibility perspective for new stuff. And it's an aluminium frame, which I'm not too gone on, although perhaps I should ride a newer ally frame at some point as I'm told they're much better than they used to be. Someone also needs to let me into whatever secret it is your harbouring about why cantis are so great. I don't want to open up a massive can of worms but why does everyone get so excited about cantis but every new bike on the market is going disc? Still looks like an amazing deal though.

In other news, that slightly damaged Spesh I had my eye on was snapped up by someone else before I got in there so I am still looking.

[WillBeresford]

Rael, too late...

For me discs look rubbish, they might work better, they might even offer more clearance, but they're not traditional. Cyclists, and cross/roadies especially love tradition.

Plus, apart from summer cross, i found in winter I didn't really need powerful brakes that much, the mud kind of slows you down.

[Stuart]

OK, I'll try to answer some of that given my comments in the other thread consisted mostly of semi-facetious bike snobbery. But I'll preface it with the observation that there are very few rights and wrongs in cross, just personal opinions and, dare I say it, prejudices.

Di2 is arguably more use in cross than anywhere else. With all that muck in your drivetrain, gear shifting problems are par for the course and a dropped chain can ruin your race. Shifting between chainrings is always risky and I try to minimise or avoid doing that. Hence the the single ring option and 1x11, although I prefer to have more options than that gives. That said, Ive tried neither 1x11 or Di2 so this is mainly speculation. I don't see why Di2 would break though.

Some of us are still running 8 or 9 speed, so 10 speed is not an issue. Aren't most wheels 10 or 11 speed compatible?

Aluminium, I hear you. The lightness, stiffness and responsiveness of a carbon bike is ideal for cross. Plus you might have to carry it a few times every lap and a heavier bike will tire you out quicker. But Focus make very nice cross bikes and this just might be as good as a carbon frame. Unlike road bikes the comfort of the frame is not an issue in cross.

We love cantis largely because we have invested in a fleet of bikes and wheels before discs were an option. However, discs are heavier, cable actuated discs are a bit ropey in my view, it is harder to swap wheels mid-race and there are more compatibility issues with the different wheelsets you may be running. And I remember from my mtb days there is nothing more off-putting than the sound of disc-rub. Cantis are simple, you can use road wheels with them and they work well enough. I also think discs are not suitable for cross. It demands a very different technique to mountain biking where there are frequent sharp changes of direction which can be negotiated by riding hard at a corner and grabbing a handful of brake at the last moment. Cross is all about smoothness, finesse and above all maintaining momentum through corners. The last thing you want to do is scrub off too much speed. Thats my theory why most of the top European riders still prefer cantis.

The reason why most bikes are disc now? I suspect fashion fuelling market demand.

[Chris Clague]

I offer some defence of discs:
Stuart's description of why they're so great on an MTB is actually very similar to the start of a cross race. I have made up many places in the first couple of corners by pointing the bike at the apex and braking as late as possible. If it's cold and wet, this can be significant. If I had the advantage of starting on the front row though, I appreciate that I might view it as less of an issue

Overall they're more consistent when it gets really messy which can give you more options/flexibility in close combat.

For the other 98% of the time I would reluctantly concede that they don't offer much.

Re weight, that, as always, is down to the depth of your pockets. Apparently Helen Wyman runs a 7kg (or thereabouts) bike with discs..

I've never found them to be a disadvantage though. One time the mud was so bad that the discs were submerged and failed completely and still I managed to fend off the guy behind on cantis.

And (serious question) how often do people actually change wheels mid-race. I know people put spares in the pit all the time, but in a 40min race you'd lose so much time.

[Astrid Wingler]

I don't want to open up a massive can of worms

Haha!

Aluminium frames in cyclocross: You're not riding around on 23 mm tyres pumped up to 120 psi. I much prefer the feel of my aluminium Ridley cross bike to my carbon fibre Ridley road bike (OK - I'm probably comparing apples and pears). Also, my aluminium Ridley with cantis was lighter than Chris' whatever make carbon bike with discs (although he may point out that he's since made some upgrades to his bike).

Which brings us to discs: Cantis are absolutely fine in cyclocross and I'd choose them over discs because they are lighter and I know how to maintain them. A good reason to buy a bike with discs though is that if you use it for commuting, you find discs more reliable than cantis which are a bit dodgy when it's wet and you need to stop suddenly in traffic. Commuting with cantis takes a bit of foresight and care. As more cross bikes are used for commuting, it makes sense that they are increasingly fitted with discs. I think in cross the use of disc brakes is mainly driven by the sponsors.

11-speed in cross: I can't even feel the difference between 10 and 11 speed on the road. Not sure why anyone would want it in cross. Some people even like single-speed bikes. Again, it's just something driven by the industry.

Di2: I've never tried it; there may be an advantage. Personally, I think electronic shifting goes against the idea of a mechanically powered bike and should be banned. Again the industry wants us to buy expensive new kit. And in cross you want to go for parts that are either very sturdy or cheap to replace.

The Focus: I think it looks good, and Focus bikes seem to have a good reputation for cross racing (although I'm talking out of my arse here because I've never ridden one).

[EdwinBurden]

Re:disks, the wheel comparability argument can be spun both ways- if you have an mtb then at a push you could stick those wheels in a spares. I've had both canti and disk now (cable but going hydraulic next) and prefer the disks. I'm rubbish at mechanics but overall find the cable disks just as fiddly as cantis really. Mud clearance definately better on the disks but they weigh more.

Also agree with Chris- it always surprises me how wide people run in cross sticking to the main line- if you can brake late you can often barge through the inside. I'm normally mid pack compared to stuart though so maybe different if your leading!

Basically if your starting from a blank page of go disk, if you have lots of road wheels already or whatever go canti...

Definately recommend ditching the front mech and rings in favour of a thick-thin ring- race face are cheapest I think

To throw the cat among the pigeons, what about 650b cross wheels, a la cannondale slate?

[Steve Hanks]

I. Glad I resisted, there's more than enough of this type of discussion in the MTB world already!

[RaelWinters]

Well, when you say all that then the Focus does start to look a lot more attractive...

...but it's really all about the brakes. I think I've only ever ridden with discs twice before - when we hired mountain bikes in Afan for the Welsh weekends - and the extra control felt amazing compared to my recollections of wet rim brakes when mountain biking as a kid. I get the argument about keeping it traditional and I like Stuart's explanation about keeping momentum through corners, although surely you can also keep momentum with discs while retaining the option for Chris' more combative cornering technique. The weight argument is probably most compelling in their favour. A spot of Googling suggest it could be anything between 200 and 500g extra for discs (does that sound right for normal depth pockets?).

If I had a collection of wheels I could swap over between bikes I might be swayed by the Focus, but I'm down to one working pair of crap 10 speed wheels now so I'm basically starting from scratch. Combine that with the tax advantage of shopping with Evans and the fact they don't sell any bikes with cantis, and I think I'll almost definitely be going disc. I'm just waiting for all the 2016 models to land so they discount the 2015 bikes properly.

Good debate though guys, thanks for the input.

[guy elyahou]

The view from over the pond http://www.bicycling.com/bikes-and-gear ... _Bicycling__

[WillBeresford]

For anybody 1x9/10/11 curious I sorted mine out finally and first tested at Ally Pally and then Herne Hill.

I used a Shimano XT chainset withe Raceface Narrow Wide 38T chainring. I'm running (oldskool) 9 speed kit, so a 12-28 cassette was used at the rear. No chain guide means no clogging in the mud. I never ran out of gears and could get up all the Ally Pally hills. I'm running a similar setup on my mountain bike, albeit with an oval ring, and it's awesome.

Only slight issue was axle length because i'm using a MTB chainset. Just shimmed out the BB with two 2.5mm spacers and it works fine.

[DragosMGrunfeld]

A quick one for the Time off-road pedals fans out there. Mavic have a range of off-road pedals that were "developed" with Time. They're, in fact, rebranded Time ATACs. The point is they can be found at decent (discounted) prices on the great web.

[DanielMcqueen]

Any suggestions/advice for a ss cx? I just ripped off my second rear mech in 2 months. I am thinking of cobbling together something basic.

[Chris Clague]

Am sure there was a PX/On One one but can't find it now that I planned on building as a commuter. That was until last night when I bought a Boone frameset that will now take all my money..